A Conversation about "Obedience"
"Sometimes I wonder about my Promise of Obedience. As I understand it my obedience is given to the Superiors of the Order, the Constitutions, Statutes, and Community Council. Right?"
Right. The Promise does not mention God but that way I see it, God is "incarnate" in all of the above. Now the VOW of obedience comes under the virtue of religion, which means to God.
We all have to concretize or make incarnate what we promise. So to promise obedience of what and to whom is important otherwise the Promise remains just an abstract ideal. When we are confronted with something that goes against what we want or like, well, it does not mean that we cannot question or have difficulty with it, but if we mean when we promise obedience that we will obey only what we find agreeable, then what is that? Even the pagans do that.
We make our Carmelite promise to God of course, but explicitly we offer it to the Superiors of the Order, to the Constitutions provided by the Order and to each other. These are generally the instruments God employs in revealing His Will to us.
"Once a friend in community said to me that she didn't have to obey something that "went against her understanding, opinion, conscience." We were talking about a point in the Rule."
Obey only what we understand? Well again, what is that? We promise allegiance to Christ and Christ was obedient unto death. Of course, there is a false kind of blind obedience. You have to use your reason and you have to follow your conscience. But you have an obligation to the truth, which means bringing your understanding, your opinions, and your conscience in line with what is true. Basically what the Order asks of us is presented in the Constitutions, the Provincial Statutes and that, so to speak, is the truth we are to live by if we want to belong to the Order. If we cannot accept that "truth" then perhaps we should consider sincerely if we really want to belong to the Order. Perhaps we want to follow Carmelite spirituality as we understand it, and that is fine, but we do not need to be in the Order to do that.
Selective obedience is game playing with the truth. "I made the resolution," Theresa said, "never to consider whether the things commanded of me appeared useful or not.. it is love alone that counts. Forget about whether something is needed or useful; see it (the demand, rule, obligation, etc.) as a whim of Jesus."
Theresa lamented those in her community "who do nothing or next to nothing, saying: 'I am not obliged to do that, after all.' How few there are who do everything in the best way possible!"
"I'm almost afraid to admit this, but I would find it difficult "never to consider whether the things demanded of me are needed or useful." .. I would need to understand the what and the why."
You always have the obligation to come to a correct understanding of what is being asked of you. So, you question, discuss, and yes, even argue with the "lawgiver," but then sooner or later, you have to decide if you believe that the Constitutions promulgated by the lawful authority in the Order and approved by the Church is the will of God for you. If not, then your conscience should tell you to seek where you may find the will of God.
Obedience is not always absolute. Things change. What is expected of us changes and evolves. Obedience to God is absolute, but sometimes our understanding of His will is relative. We grow in understanding and wisdom and Grace, and so does our practice of obedience. Having a spirit of obedience means having this attitude of always listening thoroughly for the expression of God's will. We do not always like what we hear, but after we have discussed and expressed our disagreements, if we have them, then we strive to obey. There is Grace in that, not only for us but also for the lawgiver who also may come to a better understanding through our questioning.
"Ok, I think I understand what you are saying. It is good and proper to consider, question, and discuss until we come to a good understanding and acceptance of what is being asked of us in our Promise of obedience. It is a searching for and surrendering to God's Will for us."
Yes. What should matter to us in being obedient to God's Will is not abstract ideals, but profound love and surrender to the concrete "judgments of God." When we are professed as Carmelites we surrender to the judgment of God that he is calling us to live out our Baptismal covenant by following the Constitutions given to us by the Order. Obedience inspired by and directed by the Holy Spirit is docile. To be docile is not to be a doormat but to be a child of God and as a child of God; we accept our total dependence on Him relative to our salvation and sanctification.
Obedience makes us surrender our own will to adhere to God's will as expressed in the orders of our superiors; and that leads us into the perfection of charity. Charity will be perfect in us when we govern ourselves in each action —not according to our personal desires and inclinations, but according to God's will.
Right. The Promise does not mention God but that way I see it, God is "incarnate" in all of the above. Now the VOW of obedience comes under the virtue of religion, which means to God.
We all have to concretize or make incarnate what we promise. So to promise obedience of what and to whom is important otherwise the Promise remains just an abstract ideal. When we are confronted with something that goes against what we want or like, well, it does not mean that we cannot question or have difficulty with it, but if we mean when we promise obedience that we will obey only what we find agreeable, then what is that? Even the pagans do that.
We make our Carmelite promise to God of course, but explicitly we offer it to the Superiors of the Order, to the Constitutions provided by the Order and to each other. These are generally the instruments God employs in revealing His Will to us.
"Once a friend in community said to me that she didn't have to obey something that "went against her understanding, opinion, conscience." We were talking about a point in the Rule."
Obey only what we understand? Well again, what is that? We promise allegiance to Christ and Christ was obedient unto death. Of course, there is a false kind of blind obedience. You have to use your reason and you have to follow your conscience. But you have an obligation to the truth, which means bringing your understanding, your opinions, and your conscience in line with what is true. Basically what the Order asks of us is presented in the Constitutions, the Provincial Statutes and that, so to speak, is the truth we are to live by if we want to belong to the Order. If we cannot accept that "truth" then perhaps we should consider sincerely if we really want to belong to the Order. Perhaps we want to follow Carmelite spirituality as we understand it, and that is fine, but we do not need to be in the Order to do that.
Selective obedience is game playing with the truth. "I made the resolution," Theresa said, "never to consider whether the things commanded of me appeared useful or not.. it is love alone that counts. Forget about whether something is needed or useful; see it (the demand, rule, obligation, etc.) as a whim of Jesus."
Theresa lamented those in her community "who do nothing or next to nothing, saying: 'I am not obliged to do that, after all.' How few there are who do everything in the best way possible!"
"I'm almost afraid to admit this, but I would find it difficult "never to consider whether the things demanded of me are needed or useful." .. I would need to understand the what and the why."
You always have the obligation to come to a correct understanding of what is being asked of you. So, you question, discuss, and yes, even argue with the "lawgiver," but then sooner or later, you have to decide if you believe that the Constitutions promulgated by the lawful authority in the Order and approved by the Church is the will of God for you. If not, then your conscience should tell you to seek where you may find the will of God.
Obedience is not always absolute. Things change. What is expected of us changes and evolves. Obedience to God is absolute, but sometimes our understanding of His will is relative. We grow in understanding and wisdom and Grace, and so does our practice of obedience. Having a spirit of obedience means having this attitude of always listening thoroughly for the expression of God's will. We do not always like what we hear, but after we have discussed and expressed our disagreements, if we have them, then we strive to obey. There is Grace in that, not only for us but also for the lawgiver who also may come to a better understanding through our questioning.
"Ok, I think I understand what you are saying. It is good and proper to consider, question, and discuss until we come to a good understanding and acceptance of what is being asked of us in our Promise of obedience. It is a searching for and surrendering to God's Will for us."
Yes. What should matter to us in being obedient to God's Will is not abstract ideals, but profound love and surrender to the concrete "judgments of God." When we are professed as Carmelites we surrender to the judgment of God that he is calling us to live out our Baptismal covenant by following the Constitutions given to us by the Order. Obedience inspired by and directed by the Holy Spirit is docile. To be docile is not to be a doormat but to be a child of God and as a child of God; we accept our total dependence on Him relative to our salvation and sanctification.
Obedience makes us surrender our own will to adhere to God's will as expressed in the orders of our superiors; and that leads us into the perfection of charity. Charity will be perfect in us when we govern ourselves in each action —not according to our personal desires and inclinations, but according to God's will.
posted by john michael at 1:28 AM
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